This post is for following-up recent announcement about Language config restriction, as it's not possible to answer there.
Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
Number of replies: 18
In reply to Nicolas Martignoni
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
There's a problem with this (hasty?!) decision: date/hour format cannot be translated anymore, and this is a BIG issue, as it worsen considerably the quality of the translations.
Please find a solution so the quality of the translation can be maintained, as I don't think Helen and Koen will have the time to do the necessary translations.
(I find it a pity that the translator community has not been included in the discussions on this issue. Perhaps we could have suggested less drastic solutions.)
In reply to Nicolas Martignoni
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by David Mudrák -
Hi Nicolas. Thank you for opening up this follow-up.
May I guess you are referring to all those dozens of strings introduced in MDL-74810? Yeah, I must admit it did not come in the best possible time did it. I have no problem with granting experienced language pack maintainers (such as yourself and many others here) the new capability, so you would be able to make these changes yourself.
I still believe this new mechanism is a good solution though and I would not call it "hasty" so hastily (touché ). We've seen a lot of unintended mistakes in langconfig coming through submitted contributions that were not caught and noticed and got spread, affecting Moodle sites, installers etc. Even all these new date/time formatting strings are quite exceptional and once they are set up, they won't typically need a regular update.
Let's sort this out - would you like to get the capability (and responsibility) to edit the strings yourself be granted you you?
In reply to David Mudrák
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
Oh wow - I didn't see those strings coming in yet (trying to start a school year here too ).
I'm afraid I must agree with David that it happens regularly that contributions with trouble/rubble in langconfig get approved.
I suppose that not allowing contributions to langconfig.php is a bit more difficult to organise.
I wonder if it is not possible to pull a lot of information from CLDR (https://cldr.unicode.org/) in stead of all duplicating it in langconfig ... A quick look shows all those relative times for Dutch here: https://github.com/unicode-org/cldr-json/blob/43.0.0/cldr-json/cldr-dates-modern/main/nl/dateFields.json
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
I suppose that not allowing contributions to langconfig.php is a bit more difficult to organise.
Yes, but a non-experienced maintainer could still borken things.
I wonder if it is not possible to pull a lot of information from CLDR (https://cldr.unicode.org/) in stead of all duplicating it in langconfig
Interesting idea! This is maybe a path to follow to lighten Moodle devs and translators work.
In reply to David Mudrák
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
Hi David,
May I guess you are referring to all those dozens of strings introduced in MDL-74810?
Yes, but not only (there are other such strings).
I'm totally aware that some bad translated strings in langconfig are problematic and also in favor of being restrictive about langconfig strings! (I'm myself very restrictive anyway about contributions in the core strings of Moodle )
I think however that trusted people ("experienced language pack maintainers", as you write) could be given this responsability and capability. So yes, I do would like this for myself, even if it'll be some time til I finished them up (I've also my school year to begin).
In reply to Nicolas Martignoni
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by David Mudrák -
So yes, I do would like this for myself
It should be set up. Let me know if not. TIA
In reply to David Mudrák
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
Works OK, thanks !
In reply to Nicolas Martignoni
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Ralf Krause -
Hi Nicolas,
thank you very much for your post. Yes, the maintainers of the language packs are doing a hard and very important work. I do not believe that the translation of the time formats can be done without a deep knowlage of the country specific details.
Best regards,
Ralf
In reply to Ralf Krause
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
Hi Ralf,
I think there is a lot of stuff in langconfig that can't be done without proper knowledge of the language, starting with the alphabet...
I think there is a lot of stuff in langconfig that can't be done without proper knowledge of the language, starting with the alphabet...
In reply to Nicolas Martignoni
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by German Valero -
I recently translated many (all?) of these new time and date related strings in langconfig into the mexican Spanish language pack befor the new quarantine.
I do fear there is a high risk that I made a few/some/many mistakes, but I will not be able to tell for sure until I have the new Moodle 4.3 branch up and running in my site.
But thanks for thinking about a way to prevent future accidents with the translation of the very important langconfig file.
In reply to German Valero
Ri: Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Andrea Bicciolo -
There are no problems from my side in being unable to translate langconfig.php, however not sure to get if the lanconfig.php will be centrally edited to satisfy local language conventions which differs from country to country.
I recall in the past I had to change some lanconfig strings to adhere to Italian language conventions, from simple things like 24 hours format to more complex adaptation of date shown in several parts of Moodle, such as logs.
If conventions will be adapted centrally by HQ, I'm happy to keep lancongif non editable by translators.
In reply to Andrea Bicciolo
Re: Ri: Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
I think only native speakers can edit langconfig., so changes should be requested with a tracker issue.
The problem is that langconfig with the last commit starts to contain more then pure technical things - what it was intended to contain.
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Ri: Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
I wrote a langconfig improvement proposel on https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-79461
Fire at will.
Fire at will.
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Ri: Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by German Valero -
Thanks for the proposal Koen. A move in the right direction.
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Nicolas Martignoni -
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Ri: Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
I have rewritten the proposal, converted it to a solvable bug report (because it is a bug now - those 120+ strings are not translatable anymore) on https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-79461
I made a separate issue about using Unicode CLDR on https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-79545
I made a not so great proposal on how to solve the YES/NO problem for the questioniconfollowlangdirection https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-78983
I made a separate issue about using Unicode CLDR on https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-79545
I made a not so great proposal on how to solve the YES/NO problem for the questioniconfollowlangdirection https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-78983
In reply to koen roggemans
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by Ralf Krause -
Hi Koen,
if the langconfig.php is intended to contain only a pure technical things as the name of the language pack and all the dependences from parent language, the iso font sets and so on then the langconfig.php could be protected. But currently we got a lot of additions which should stay in a different language file.
With the new strings in langconfig.php we will get a lot of problems but this is different discussion. You can take the english string "%a days %h hours %i minutes" as an example. What do you think about the result "1 days 1 hours 1 minutes". And it can't be a solution to change the string to "1 day(s) 1 hour(s) 1 minute(s)".
Ralf
In reply to Ralf Krause
Re: Follow-up about "Language configuration not editable any more"
by koen roggemans -
Yes Ralph, that's my point.
In the bug report I make 2 suggestions:
- move the datestrings to a separate file
- get such and a load of other translated strings from https://cldr.unicode.org/ instead of duplicating the work